One of the interesting things about our new Blue Voice group blog, still in its first week of operation, is that we attracted detractors even before the blog started publishing. More specifically, from another group blog by people that selected the highly original name "The Red Voice" for their effort.
I think this may be the first time any of the Blue Voice team has made a blog entry in response to any of their posts, most of which have been easily forgettable. But one of their posts was just so sad that I'll comment on it here. Not because it has any ideas that merit serious thought. But because it's a reminder of a wider phenomenon.
The post in question is by "Caleb," and it's titled America and Pol Pot 06/16/05.
No, the post is not about the disastrous consequences of Richard Nixon's 1970 invasion of Cambodia. In fact, it's not about Cambodia at all. It's a defense of the use of torture in the Bush Gulag. And it's delivered in pretty much the same way that "good ole boy" white guys in the Deep South used to snicker about the torture and lynch-murder of blacks during the segregation years.
Caleb identifies himself as a "17 year old radical right-wing conservative religious fundamentalist extremist and Copper Mountain Colorado snowboarder all at the same time."
Do you suppose a young war and torture fan like Caleb will be signing up soon to go kill A-rabs for Jesus?
I hear that's a lot harder than frivolously spewing about how great it is to inflict cruelty on captives that are helpless to resist.
Although in the OxyContin world, it seems to be regarded as a manly act to strip a prisoner naked, handcuff him and turn a dog loose on him to rip out chunks of his flesh. Caleb probably thinks you earn medals for something like that.
Now, as I've said here before, I don't put much stock in the notion that veterans have some special insight into foreign policy. Some of them may. But for others, even serving as a combat infantryman doesn't in itself give someone any special understanding of the complexities of nuclear proliferation in North Korea. Or enable them to follow Iranian political debates in Farsi-language newspapers. Also, every citizen has an obligation as a citizen to pay some attention to serious issues like war. Not just veterans or soldiers currently serving.
But what strikes me as so sad about Caleb's defense of criminal, sadistic torture is that in the unlikely event that some young blowhard like Caleb presents himself to be actually did join the Army and committed such criminal acts as he is praising, there's much more of a chance that he would go to prison than any of his commanders. Not to mention civilian superiors. Although the latter may happen someday, as well.
Someone who thinks the way Caleb writes in that post might actually go into the service thinking that Real Men torture prisoners, and that the folks back home would respect him for it.
Disgusting. Even for a 17-year-old.
And anyone who promotes this attitude to people who are serving or who may volunteer (or be otherwise called upon) to serve is just being irresponsible. Rummy may be able to prance and sneer about how great things are at Gitmo and similar torture sites. But soldiers who get caught doing the dirty work like some of those at Abu Ghuraib did have a good chance of winding up in real trouble. Because, despite the lawlessness of this administration and today's Republican Party, torture is a crime under American law.
Short version: Caleb, having fool ideas about some things is part of being a 17-year-old. But there's no excuse for being this foolish about an issue like torture. And if you really are a fundamentalist Christian, you might want to ask yourself, how would Jesus torture prisoners?
It's a sad measure of the state of today's Republican Party that people like Caleb identifies himself to be are entering adulthood in an America where torture has become a partisan, ideological, liberal-vs.-conservative issue. Instead of a human rights standard of democracy and the rule of law.
6 comments:
In fairness to Caleb, he is just a boy, and I don't think he gave serious thought to the proposition he was advocating. I commented on his post, and called him on the pathetic relativism of his moral thinking on the subject (ie, we're not as bad as Pol Pot, therefore no problem). What is sad is that he writes stuff and doesn't see the contradiction of his own stated values as a conservative and Christian -- but then that sort of detachment from reason and reality is the defining characteristic of the Bush fan-club.
Neil
Bruce,
Neil has a point. But what is the right response? I think your post takes him to task in just the right way. It's obvious from much of his writing that he doesn't understand a great deal about the issues involved and that's fine. But he is heading into the real world soon and I would think it would be a good thing for him to start to realize that he doesn't have a clue.
dave
Hi there,
As both Dave and Neil can assure you, I am Caleb. And I'm not even going to say anything about your rant.
I saw nothing in it to debate. All it was was a big time liberal rant. But I am honored that you would devote an entire article about me. I've printed it out, and it has taken a special place in a scrap book of mine (blog scrap book).
Just a reminder, have the terrorists ever attacked or killed any Americans? (answer, yes...9/11, the beheadings, car bombings, etc.) I think we're treating these terrorists (who you love I take it) better than they treat us.
Caleb
http://conservativetextbook.blogspot.com/
Oh, I was rereading what you said, and actually I do have a few things to say.
"Someone who thinks the way Caleb writes in that post might actually go into the service thinking that Real Men torture prisoners, and that the folks back home would respect him for it."
Please don't insult my intelligence.
"Caleb, having fool ideas about some things is part of being a 17-year-old. But there's no excuse for being this foolish about an issue like torture. And if you really are a fundamentalist Christian, you might want to ask yourself, how would Jesus torture prisoners?"
Oh, like I said, this wasn't torture. If it was torture, American's are tortured daily. Jesus and torture? Interesting. I do not accept your idea. This was not torture. Jesus does not allow us to torture. He does allow us to defend ourselves. That is why war can be jusfied for a Christian.
If you think that torture is 100+ degrees, please enlighten yourself as to the climate these terrorists are from. In Iraq, for instance, it is regularly 130 degrees in the day time.
Your entire argument (if there really is one in the article) is so weak because if we accept your definition of torture, Americans are tortured daily in this very country. Later.
Caleb
Caleb claims that the torture you condemn isn't really torture at all. And in fairness, some of us might accept the premise that some physical coercion, discomfort, and psychological pressure is probably acceptable in questioning people we have reason to believe possess useful information about terrorist groups, their activities and their plans.
But there is a line we should not cross, and there is now ample evidence that the line has been crossed many times -- sometimes due to sloppy local leadership, and generally due to sloppy and misguided leadership at very high levels of command.
Caleb chooses to close his eyes to the evidence and to pretend that all we have done is made people a little uncomfortable. And at the same time, he argues that Jesus himself would agree we are entitled to use force against these prisoners in our own self-defense.
The boy wonder evades and rationalizes until he has the Prince of Peace Himself giving a thumbs-up along with Lyndie England and a pile of naked Iraqi's at Abu Ghraib. Hey Jesus, smile for the camera!
I hate to argue based on religion, but the requirement to treat a human being whom you have imprisoned with dignity and compassion is essentially an ethical one. The idea that Christianity is consistent with the mistreatment of prisoners is an obtuse perversion, much like the war itself.
Neil
The specific technique Caleb condones - the drastic temperature changes - is very similar to one that the German Luftwaffe used on American captives in some cases. And it's nasty. As Steve Gilliard has noted, put someone in captivity, in fear for his life, change the temperature in the room drastically and rapidly over a period of time, blare loud music in a foreign language at him, all while he's chained to the floor and forced to defecate and urinate on himself - it's ugly stuff. - Bruce
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